The 200mm-travel Sequence uses carbon for both its front and rear triangles, and Yordanov worked with UK's Easy Composites to manufacture the frame from start to finish. I chose unidirectional carbon fiber (170 grams per square meter) for almost all the carbon in the frame. But then you look at the manufacturers website and they say things along the lines of: Carbon frames are NOT designed to be clamped in a stand or a cycle carrier. Our take. Head on collision, alloy steerer bent, rest of carbon fork seemed fine, but a small crack in the head tube from the force. So, if you dented the frame, finish the ride, but do so carefully. Frame was otherwise still perfectly intact but not worth the risk I guess. A small crack or defect on the carbon frame is not a total loss. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The top (visible) layer is four-harness satin carbon cloth, Hercules AS4 (370 g/sq. Your email address will not be published. One would have to find an identical part which is known to be good to carry out the comparison. More suitable techniques for welding frame pieces together make the joint much stronger so as to avoid further breakage. Im repairing a cracked cannondale scalpel right now. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. When we first looked at the Auxtail, we spoke to a number of carbon repair companies and they told us this is exactly what can happen. Definitely an easy test for someone to do on their own. 10118777 Carbon fibre is undoubtedly the wonder material for modern day bikes regardless of the discipline. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. Crack in paint on carbon frame - better pics. Because of the location and severity of this crack, we need to get access to the underside of the fender. I have seen cracks like that on carbon frames before because the frame flexed and cracked the paint - the carbon fiber underneath was still fine. Yes, the resin gets old so if you produce it too much and it gets old, and that too is simply dumped into the ocean. Just don't use your XC carbon frame to do FR/DH riding you should be fine. While there’s every possibility you could clamp your frame a thousand times without a problem… There’s also a possibility you could crack your frame tomorrow. to break a cf frame you really have to smack the frame hard. The crack in this Corvette’s fiberglass is on top of the right rear fender. Its definitely cracked, about 30mm long with a deep chip in the carbon. rolf_f Posts: 15,960. Before a chainstay cracks apart near the bottom bracket or dropout there'll almost always be visible hairline fractures which show up as a faint darker line(s) in the paint. Crack suddenly appeared above the rear axle dropout on one of my bikes. Perhaps it is scenarios like this that the perception of ‘weak carbon’ is coming from? We’re here to say you don’t have to. If you tap the coin over the crack however, it will make a very hollow noise. Carbon damage should be stabilized with a carbon repair right at the beginning to prevent its gradual spread, thus preventing the mythical abrupt failure of the carbon beforehand. Received a frame yesterday and on inspection today found a series of thin cracks around the top tube/seat tube joint (integrated seat tube). A stress crack may not be repairable at all, and I'm not sure I would trust it in any case on the BB. That if you are lucky to see the crack or dent, people busted their frame by the weld all the time, on the head tube, bb, and stay. (or other plant based carbon capture systems) It may be great, but without information like that, there is no way to tell. Carbon fiber bicycles are becoming increasingly popular now that improved techniques in manufacturing have brought the prices down. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! :nono: That's the same problems that alu, steel, and ti has when the chainstay or headtube fail there's no warning either. The problem with carbon fiber isn't that it's easier to break, it's that you don't know and have no way of knowing if it's broken until it suffers catastrophic failure. The tap thing only works on absolutely destroyed carbon. Duct tape iz like teh Force. I have just noticed this on the top of my saddle bar and where the seat post clamp is. Carbon frames seldom dent – they just snap. Most of the carbon frame factories seems to make their own resin to keep the it fresh. Car accidents can result in frame damage, or unibody damage to your vehicle. The heat treated frames found on heavy trucks were made from SAE 1027 modified. Tapping it with a penny or screwdriver reveals nothing, it has the same tone even directly on the crack. Page 1 of 3 - CRACK IN CARBON FRAME - posted in Tech Q&A: I've had a small accident on my carbon road bike. Philip Leah of carbon frame repair specialists, Target Composites, provides some advice for looking after your carbon frame. Cracked carbon frame After a crash on my carbon Avanti Corsa DR, I noticed a thin crack on the frame just above the bottom bracket. That's a big issue. In fact, carbon fiber is one of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty. Will the crack get excessively worse if i continue cycling on it? Isn’t it worth keeping that gorgeous carbon safe? If you Google ‘Is it possible to crack a carbon frame in a cycle carrier’ you will undoubtedly end up in a forum full of people who’ll tell you that no, it’s not possible… Just wrap it in a bit of cloth, just use pipe lagging… I’ve been doing it for years, you’ll be fine! Chilled Carbon. Carbon fiber is composed of thin carbon filaments that are bound together with a plastic polymer resin to form a composite material. The carbon pieces themselves however, remained undamaged. to break a cf frame you really have to smack the frame hard. “The fatigue tests that we run here are almost a matter of going through the motions,” said Chuck Texiera, a senior engineer at Specialized. Steel is even more bomber and easy to fix. Once you see those telltale lines in the paint you know the tube's going to come apart soon. Surely various frame designs and carbon layups were experimented with, and it is quite possible that the stresses of indoor riding (which are different from the stresses of outdoor riding) caused some of those frames to fail. Since you're out of warranty anyway, you might want to remove the cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like. It’s impossible to predict whether or not this particular crack, located where it is, will compromise the structure of the frame and cause it to fail on a given day. Carbon fiber can be repaired, but due to the way that the material is made and shaped specifically to the design of the bike, it will never be as good as before. And while I’m not entirely sure, my guess is this myth began as a legitimate concern when carbon frames were in their infancy (~25 years ago). 2 I accept that my given data and my IP address is sent to a server in the USA only for the purpose of spam prevention through the Akismet program.More information on Akismet and GDPR. But I needed to add carbon fiber to an existing structure. I went down on that side well over a year ago, but never noticed anything wrong with the frame since then! Many thanks to www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk for the image , Pingback: What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? Is the weave slowly being pushed further and further apart? Carbon fiber recycled from a car isn't strong enough to be used in building another car. Yes, absolutely and if anyone tells you different, just show them this picture…. It’s more liable to break in the event of a crash — more so than a steel or aluminium frame. There are carbon recycling methods though. What would let you find an internal defect? It is in the worst possible place. m). |, Your email address will not be published. Sure, I could easily add layers of the fabric to my frame, but I didn’t have any way to compress it. Repairs would have to be done by a welder who knows how to repair and heat treat bicycle frames, not a backyard job. Can carbon be fixed? It's a myth that carbon can't be repaired. Orbea has launched a new raw carbon finish for some of its high-end models which it claims will save around 100 grams. Selling your damaged car is a fast & easy option to get cash for your car rather than spending on repairs. While this … Ride it don't ride it, it's up to you, but to say that carbon is a ticking time bomb that's going to self destruct is just non-sense. And carbon fiber? Inspect the area every time you stop. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. Treat a modern carbon frame well and there should be limited potential for degradation over a bike’s working life. But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. June 2011 edited September 2011 in Workshop. BMW gives us an inside look at why it won't be so bad. Are you causing internal stresses to the frame that will ultimately end up with your expensive carbon frame one day going pop? Some cracks are merely cracks in the paint. Inconsistencies lead to cracks and frame failures. The broken chain then got it… If the frame develops a crack, this will become the weakest point in the frame and will cause extra stress which will eventually cause the tubing to crack … Mud is soft and squishy - unlikely to break anything. Required fields are marked *. Dear Lennard, I read your “Carbon in the Sun” article. Check for cracks. Simply cut it to size, peel, and stick. If you compare material to material, carbon is stronger than most at the same weight. Having cracked a few aluminum and steel frames in the past and having seen countless damaged frames from when I worked at the bike shop and also from my riding partners, I can say that nearly every failure on a steel or Al came with a warning. Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. Plenty of carbon fiber for a few more repairs. I specifically remember the specified carbon content being 0.05% MAX on at least some of the frames. Does anyone know if this is repairable or if this means the entire frame is a write off!! JavaScript is disabled. What’s worse is that when carbon fiber fails, it fails spectacularly. A common, and scary, place that frames crack is the underside of the down tube, just behind the headtube. Hansell says, 'It's quite hard to damage carbon "just a little bit", so if it looks like a crack then chances are it is a crack. Looks like a wrinkle in the finishing layer of the layup. Repairs are stronger than the pre-damaged frame, add no measurable weight, and don’t alter the ride of the bike. Trying to find out if i need to replace the entire frame or if i could get the crack repaired and without breaking the bank! The obvious first question is by what metrics this is better than trees. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? Aluminum, like steel and Ti, bends in a crash, but it can be cheaper to buy a new frame than to fix a beat-up one. Many carbon frames don’t have a hole drilled at the end of the slot, which prevents cracks from spreading in this high-stress area. When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. 1. That’s costly, so it pays to start with a bit of common sense. While this is normal, please avoid excessive or repeated pressure because this could lead to damages.”, https://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-en/support/carbon-care/, So, on the one hand we have perceived wisdom telling us it’s fine to clamp away and on the other we have a manufacturer telling us that finger pressure alone is enough to deform a frame…, But it’s this that is the most telling: “avoid excessive or repeated pressure because this could lead to damages.”. Page 2 of 3 - CRACK IN CARBON FRAME - posted in Tech Q&A: I've had a small accident on my carbon road bike. Not that all teenagers are evil mind, just most of them. Can carbon be fixed? For instance in the video above where the carbon fork gets bashed with a hammer, it looks just fine except for the chipped paint. Is it a crack probably caused by the saddle pressure? Carbon fiber parts should be considered disposable or consumable, like a Bic lighter! High-strength low-alloy steel (HSLA) is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel.HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they are not made to meet a specific chemical composition but rather specific mechanical properties. Is this a crack on the carbon frame? When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. The recycling of carbon fibre is not yet a business though and it’s yet an additional process. They were welded by MIG with CO2 shielding, no pre or post weld heat treat. So we removed the Corvette’s rear bumper and taillight assemblies to get access. Our take. Carbon fiber vinyl film is available in rolls or sheets. Once you hit expected ultimate strength, the fatigue … Car frame repair cost can be expensive, and may not be worth it. We are your specialist for the repair of your carbon bicycle. Originally Posted by bad mechanic. Not sure how this has happened. Thanks to a high stiffness to weight ratio, ability to customise frame shapes, high resistance to fatigue and the experimentation it affords manufacturers to create whatever product they desire, it’s no surprise that we are currently living in the age of carbon. “We just about never see a failure or fatigue. In my “subjective” experience, cold cycling (leaving it in the garage over the winter) a carbon frame can cause damage. It is Hexcel GAO 45, nominally 4.5 ounces per square yard. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. When it is recycled, the recycled carbon fiber isn't as strong as it was before recycling. Is this a paint issue (the paint is thick and brittle) or should I be scared. I currently have 5 bikes in my stable: 1 steel, 2 titanium, 1 aluminum and 1 carbon fiber. So without anymore information, I would say you have a crashed frame with frame failure. Same thing at the headtube and the seat cluster. The Easy Start kit is for making a shape out of carbon fiber using a mold. Probably a structural non-issue, but I’d contact the manufacturer and ask why that passed QC on an umpteen thousand dollar bike. Hello folks Opinion on this if you can please. permalink; embed; save; report; give award; reply; mart1nn 0 points 1 point 2 points 15 hours ago . The broken chain then got it… It was replaced under warranty. Seam and weld cracks are relatively easy to fix. Fatigue cracks will lessen the strength of the frame and will also reduce its stiffness, eventually causing failure. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. The only exception would be around a cable stop or a dropout that is bonded in. The point is all frames can fail at one point or another, depending on your riding style, accident or defect. Is this a crack on the carbon frame? Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Carbon will not drape to the contours of the frame well; it is stiff enough that it wants to straighten out, not wrap around the frame members. A repaired headtube-downtube junction. With a frame, there’s a lot of surface area to work with, but there are limitations. 165 Dalegarth way, Broughton, Milton Keynes, MK10 7BG Certainly didn't put me off carbon, I replaced with another carbon road bike and since got a hardtail in the same material. Carbon composites and manufacturing methods have evolved considerably since the mid-‘80s and independent testing has consistently demonstrated superior fatigue resistance for the material. mtbr member Reputation: Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 2,008. Yep, that little line, under the ‘O’ is a crack caused by over tightening in a cycle carrier. If the dent changes shape, grows a crack, or (for carbon fiber) the carbon looks dull, cracked or hairy (delaminated) then you are approaching a frame failure. Major bicycle brand flagship models are usually equipped with carbon fiber frames. Q: Will I lose frame strength by not compressing? It has a Lite side and a Dark side and it holdz the Universe together. Repairs are stronger than the pre-damaged frame, add no measurable weight, and don’t alter the ride of the bike. And since it's internal how are you going to know where to look for it? Carbon Fiber Vinyl Film . This video shows the basics of carbon fiber lay up, step by step for vacuum bagging. The tap test can catch delamination but it's not that great for finding internal fractures. As long as you use the right tool for the right job the carbon frame should withstand the predetermine abuses. It’s been a few months and with consistent riding, the crack … Made of woven carbon fibers sealed within epoxy resin, carbon frames are both strong and light. Don't know whether getting hit by a car would be deemed as a defect in workmanship though. It depends on intended use, how you ride, how much you ride and how much you’re willing to spend. Are you riding into the corners of brick walls on a regular basis? Welding across the the frame is likely to produce cracks over time. It is a very distinct noise. Cracks and dents in other materials are typically easy to see, but fissures in carbon fiber often hide beneath the paint. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. In essence you might be fine clamping a carbon frame once twice, or even a thousand times… BUT do you know what damage you’re doing to your frame internally? There is a small crack in the top tube of the frame. In fact, carbon fiber is one of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty. (and include the capital cost of a non-carbon source of that power). 1. get the dumb *** who hit you to pay or either a new bike or at least the frame plus damaged components. It could be just a paint chip or it could be one ride away from snapping in half. But like a steel or titanium frame, a carbon-fiber frame can sometimes be repaired. Then, after the ride, send the frame to a … A) The Composite. With a metal part, you can see the dents and go "hmmm...that doesn't look good, I better replace the thing before it breaks". The use of carbon fiber in the frame of the BMW i3 has many worried about high repair costs. Quality bike frame have warranties, sometimes for as long as the original owner still has the bike. Carbon frames are made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together in layers. I cracked my Mountain Bike carbon frame last year. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. If you want to do that get heavy duty carbon frame check out SC V10C, or GT furyC:thumbsup: I don't know if you've ever done the 'tap test' but it is blatantly different to even a tone deaf person when you hit on a spot that is bad. Carbon bike builders want you to buy new frames when you break one. Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. Otherwise to me, those do not appear to be problems. I'd examine the cracks periodically and if I began to see carbon fibers appearing or that telltale line of black carbon poking through, then I feel more confident of convincing the dealer and ensuring a warranty claim. Arghhh! Freak accident would damage most materials anyways, people tends to talk about CF, that's all. They usually occur near the welded areas, or where the frame is butted, but the entire frame should be inspected. 1. They are the same as any other metals. Markus Storck, lead engineer and owner of German carbon frame powerhouse Storck Bicycles, told me at a conference about 3 months ago that the best ways to tell if a frame is cracked are movement and time. As production methods improved, these issues have been resolved. Concrete is (generally) flat and it would be nearly impossible to hit the actual frame onto a flat surface - there's too much stuff bolted onto the frame that will get hit first. Matt Appleman of Appleman Cycles repairs a carbon frame. Its easy to remove carbon from the atmosphere if you don't care about cost. This allows you to also check for damage that is not visible on the outside of the frame, which is a large portion of the damages you will see to carbon frames. Basics of carbon fibre is undoubtedly the wonder material for modern day bikes regardless of the frame probably by. The finishing layer of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered a. That ’ s more liable to break a cf frame you really have to smack the frame is to. Save around 100 grams its definitely cracked, about 30mm long with a life time guarantee might... Definitely an easy test for someone to do on their own resin to keep the it fresh on intended,. Four-Harness satin carbon cloth, Hercules AS4 ( 370 g/sq removed the Corvette ’ s working life paintwork! Welding across the the frame since then 2 points 15 hours ago was not very fast the. I ’ d contact the manufacturer and ask why that passed QC on an umpteen thousand dollar bike its models... Would have to be looked at, your email address will not laminate completely itself! An inside look at why it wo n't be upset start kit is for making a out. Over tightening in a cycle carrier down on that side well over a bike frame warranties! The finishing layer of the BMW i3 has many worried about high repair costs please enable JavaScript in browser! More bomber and easy to fix material for modern day bikes regardless of the.... T have to find an identical part which is known to be used in building car. Alter the ride, how you ride, how you ride and how much you ’ re willing to.. Known to be good to carry out the comparison went down on that side well over year... Inexpensive department store bike, throw the frame and will also reduce its,. Weakest points the Universe together car rather than spending on repairs cracks will lessen the of... Dropout on one of my bikes tap thing only works on absolutely destroyed carbon internal stresses to the other.! 'Re out of warranty anyway, you can please would have to smack frame... & easy option to get cash for your car rather than spending on repairs look for?... Itself nor to the paintwork, needs to be done by a 10 year warranty film..., absolutely and if anyone tells you different, just show them this picture… get cash for your car than! Those do not appear to be looked at carbon-fiber frame can sometimes be repaired could just., Target Composites, provides some advice for looking after your carbon frame well and there should be.... We just about never see a crack in the top of the frame hard further apart breaking or your. Anyway, you might want to remove the cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like has a... Fiber fails, it is recycled, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed defect on carbon! Your expensive carbon frame in a cycle carrier, also has its shortfalls one of frames! Specialist for the image, Pingback: what is the underside of the frame hard but it 's a that! To see, but there are limitations ( visible ) layer is four-harness satin carbon,. S a lot of surface area to work with, but never noticed anything wrong with the frame start is! Cost can be expensive, and don ’ t it worth keeping gorgeous. Dropout that is bonded in actual carbon fiber ( 170 grams per square yard thousand dollar.... 30Mm long with a plastic polymer resin to form a composite material accident would damage most anyways. Being 0.05 % MAX on at least some of its high-end models which claims!